Manawolf

Which countries were America's enemies during World War II?

How deliciously self-centred!

ahm...

it is the US citizenship test...

Ethnocentricity is ethnocentricity is ethnocentricity. I was mostly poking fun. But it is symbolic of America's sense of self-importance, you whippersnappers.

I mean, it's not like America even got involved until '42 [maybe late '41 - in fact, a quick google gives me December 8, 1941].

I'm all for awareness of global history, and overstating the U.S.'s impact on the world isn't my cup of tea, but seriously now...

In a test about Ireland, would you favor a question like, "Who were the two Persian viziers to the throne of Malik Shah I?" (Hint, one of them was Nizam al-Mulk!)

Also, the U.S. did lose 405,000 people in the war, so stating that it was a pretty significant portion of our recent history isn't exactly revisionist.

I'm all for awareness of global history, and overstating the U.S.'s impact on the world isn't my cup of tea, but seriously now...
In a test about Ireland, would you favor a question like, "Who were the two Persian viziers to the throne of Malik Shah I?" (Hint, one of them was Nizam al-Mulk!)

I'm not quite sure where you're headed with this. As near as I can tell, Turkish dynasties have next to nothing to do with Ireland - do correct me if I'm missing something vital, I am not a history student.

Also, do I "favour" that question as opposed to what?

Also, the U.S. did lose 405,000 people in the war, so stating that it was a pretty significant portion of our recent history isn't exactly revisionist.

I'll have to ask for sources on that information. Last I heard, the UK lost 300,000 people. The USSR lost something like nine million. It's a bit like saying "More people in America drive red cars than in Britain".

I'm not doubting that America did contribute greatly to the war [crivens, Manhattan Project] nor that the Axis were indeed their enemies. As I stated in a previous reply, it's just symbolic of the USA's egotism. I commented initially with tongue firmly planted in cheek, but seem to have been sadly misinterpreted. I evidently need to use more emoticons.

As near as I can tell, Turkish dynasties have next to nothing to do with Ireland

In a broad historical context, they do. The history of the the UK and the history of Iran (Malik Shah I is very important to Iranian culture) are hopelessly intermingled, but I would be the first person to state that obscure questions concerning Middle Eastern history would have no place in a quiz about Irish citizenship. It was a counterpoint to your, in my opinion, ludicrous assertion that a quiz about United States history should not contain questions skewed towards the experience of the United States.

Also, do I "favour"...

My language is as legitimate as yours.

I'll have to ask for sources on that information.

Be my guest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

Quite a few people died from the U.S., if you ask me. Enough to justify a question concerning our involvement.

As far as the comment relating to our egotism, I simply have no idea where you're coming from. If you want a symbol of America's disdain for the world, look to our attitude toward the Hague, the current political distancing from France, Germany, and Belgium, or perhaps the astounding number of Americans who don't apply for passports/visas. Wracking my brain for an answer, I cannot see how asking a question about the U.S. involvement in WW2 is in any way, shape, or form is a sample of egotism. It happened, the U.S. suffered, and it shaped our foreign policy and status as a superpower.

Like it or not, U.S. history is a legitimate subject.

In a broad historical context, they do.

So how wide do we want to go? I realise you acknowledged that the question is basically irrelevant, so why ask it? At best, it's an irritant, and at worst, it's a straw man. I don't mean to sound rude, but I'm sure this will be taken that way.

The history of the the UK and the history of Iran (Malik Shah I is very important to Iranian culture)...quiz about Irish citizenship.

That's another point. There are very few countries in the world with such draconian entry requirements as the USA, as a mutual friend of ours is discovering the hard way. Cramming for an exam is not the same as loving your country, wherever it may be.

For the record, I passed that test. I realise it's a silly online thing, but does that mean I'm more qualified to stay there than the actual Americans among us who failed? I certainly hope not.

My language is as legitimate as yours.

My apologies, I did not mean to imply that, and have no intent on starting an English debate. I meant to say "Do I favour [this] as opposed to [what]?", since you didn't provide a [what].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

I see there that the UK lost more per capita than America, as did most of the other countries. And in terms of military deaths, America lost the least per person. So I fail to see your reasoning, if we were going solely by losses the Soviet Union should be the one commemorated.

Quite a few people died from the U.S., if you ask me. Enough to justify a question concerning our involvement.

No question about that. But why not say 'During World War II, America and her allies fought-' or 'During World War II, the Axis comprised of-' or words to that effect?

If you want a symbol of America's disdain for the world--

See above for how the wording is read. The other things are important but not relevant to the question at hand.

Like it or not, U.S. history is a legitimate subject.

I don't question that. I disagree with trivialising world history in such a manner.

To be honest, the original comment was meant to be a throwaway line. I had no idea it would touch such a raw nerve. At this stage I would like to wash my hands of the matter, agree to disagree, shake your hand and offer you a pint.

There are very few countries in the world with such draconian entry requirements as the USA, as a mutual friend of ours is discovering the hard way.

That is wholly untrue.

I see there that the UK lost more per capita than America, as did most of the other countries. And in terms of military deaths, America lost the least per person. So I fail to see your reasoning, if we were going solely by losses the Soviet Union should be the one commemorated.

"I see you lost an arm there, chap."

"Yeah, I did, and it hurts so terribly."

"Well, that guy over there lost two, so let's pretend you didn't lose yours, 'kay?"

I never said we were "going solely by losses", I said that knowledge of WW2 from an American viewpoint AS AN AMERICAN is valid because it wasn't some day at the races picnic funfest. You seem to be implying that Americans should qualify every statement about the war like so, "America did fight in the war, and we did fight Japan and some other guys, but our sacrifice was nothing compared to the proud peoples of the European allies, and for that fact, I am sorry and shame-filled for our pathetic efforts to defeat the Axis powers, because America is always bad no matter what. Ireland rocks."

No question about that. But why not say 'During World War II, America and her allies fought-' or 'During World War II, the Axis comprised of-' or words to that effect?

Because this is not a quiz about World War 2. It *IS* a quiz about American history.

I don't question that. I disagree with trivialising world history in such a manner.

Oh man. Let me lay this out for you straight. I probably have spent 100 times more effort in my adult life learning world history than you have. I've read volumes on the Great War and ancient Greek and Illyrian history, lost whole weekends descending into mostly forgotten chapters in the story of Persian dynasties. In fact, American history is one of my least favorite subjects. That said, I wouldn't even consider adding a question about the Dacian league in a test about American history. In my opinion, the formation of the Greek city states were far more important to the status of Western culture than anything America has ever done, but that is not the issue. The issue is America, and regardless of my personal thoughts on our political climate, I wouldn't denigrate History by playing dumb and forming a question based on my bias.

Dumb meme or not, America did fight in WW2, and the question is valid. End of story.

offer you a pint.

As long as it isn't any of that flaccid Irish crap. Spring for a Belgian and I'm there.

http://www.cwc.lsu.edu/cwc/other/stats/warcost.htm
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/ww2stats.htm
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html
http://www.abmc.gov/abmc45.htm
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/w/wo/world_war_ii_casualties1.htm

Google. It's what's for dinner.

Oh, missed this post.

I wanted the specific source used, because the numbers I found were quite different across the board. This page especially [http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/ww2stats.htm] has a huge range of details. I wasn't questioning the validity of the facts, just where they came from so I soulc use the same source in my reply.

Also, I have redefined 'could' as 'soulc'. Goddamn laptop keyboards.

The eighth question is purrfectly nice provocation, what's kinda sad a lot of people (including but not limited to americans) would blatantly fail to answer it correctly.

Oh, and my own uneducated guesses got me 6 right out of 10 (reject anyways :) Not that I would particularly strive for US citizenship.